To be in power is almost an oxymoron because those in power are always slaves of those they rule. They must always find a way to stay in power and therefore they never truly gain absolute power. I believe each human has his own power or right which returns to the moral code i believe exists in each community, country, etc.
The Melians were following a basic moral code and claimed the land upon discovering it first however the Athenians broke this moral code when they chose to kill all the inhabitants of the island. This does not mean that such a moral code did not exist, it simply means the Athenians broke this almost unspoken moral code and exercised power over the Melians.
I will say that i myself can not describe one set of rules that all societies have always followed but i believe basic human instinct leaves each of us with some type of understanding of our rights.
I like your idea about power as an oxymoron--the way you phrase it makes sense. Rulers are always trying to stay in power, so they aren't in absolute power.
ReplyDeleteHowever, what about dictators? Dictators usually are in power because of brute force, and because of brute force they can stay that way. The Athenians can rule over Melos because they are a stronger country, and can beat the Melians to submission. They will never have the Melians trust, but because of their military superiority won't they always be able to control Melos?
I think I have to throw another angle in on the people in power being slaves to those they rule. To use a bit of Sarah's example dictators, in some situations don't really think much of the people they are ruling over, just how they can further their own agendas. There are also people who are misguided enough to believe that the power they may be wielding in a harmful way may be "good" what do we call them. What I am trying to say is what about the few radicals that cant be grouped into the majority of humanity that has a set of internal rules?
ReplyDeleteI do have to agree with you on the way the Athenians took over and the consequences of that action. While they did gain the military advantage they didn't gain the trust of the Melians which may not be a good thing in the long run.
I like how you described power as an oxymoron because it is true - the holders of power are never sure of their power and must always act to ensure their future power. Mr. Boswell brought up the idea of a bully punching a kid - but isn't it commonly accepted that the "mean kids" or people that gossip or purposely hurt others are simply insecure? I think this could be true of power as well- the Athenians were completely unsure of their power and therefore all of their violent actions were just an attempt to assert their power over others.
ReplyDeleteUnder this time period thousands of years ago the Melians and Athenians lived in a society that was just coming out of the stone ages. Where might was right. If you were stronger than your neighbor or adversary than too bad for the weaker party. "Mean kids and bullies" as Mr. Boswell indicated will fight and bully other kids because many times the bully was bullied by other's. The bully is insecure. The pattern continues until the weak get stronger or form alliances with others to provide for mutual security against the bully. The power of alliances can ensure that the holders of power are kept in check. The bully will not pick on the weakest if he knows that others will step in and aid the weaker victim. The Athenians power was not kept in check by their Melians neighbors and therefore the Athenians were able to annilate the inhabitants of the island.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the statement made about how there should be a set of laws or rights for each human being. Also that each human is entitled to a very basic set of rights which is then expanded upon or restricted. I agree with this becuase today this i sa good principle structure that works fine that i feel the Athenians could have adopted as well to ensure growith and structure in their governent.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement in some ways. Like that I also believe each human has its own power and right. And humans basic instinct leaves each of us with some type of understanding of our rights.
ReplyDelete"the golden rule" can be said to have been taught to many people around the world. I also agree that there are no rigid set of rules or ethics that can be applied to everyone
ReplyDeleteIf I understand you correctly, you hold that there is a code that people ought to follow involving basic human rights but you never really say what it is. What is it?
ReplyDeleteYou say the Athenians broke it when they killed the Melians. Is the code "never hurt anyone"?
This takes us back to my question: isn't that kind of code naive? Isn't that just the propaganda of the weak because they're not in a position of power themselves?
Aren't the Athenians right when they claim, "We act...knowing that you, having our power, would do the same." I'll grant this is a bit presumptuous but aren't the Athenians basically right: people with power use it in order to keep it? Isn't that all the Athenian's are guilty of? One of the worlds first democracies is under threat--they believe in their way of life, right? Aren't they just trying to preserve it?
I'll also grant the Athenian treatment of the Melians is harsh, but didn't they make an offer to avoid it? ("We want to rule you...you would gain by not being destroyed.") If there is a moral lapse, isn't it with the Melian leaders who decided to fight a power much stronger than there own when they had a chance to avoid it?
I state that the moral code exists but it is not definable. at least i can not clearly define it. I believe each human being has some type of moral code simple from basic instinct and though this moral code varies in different communities, it all encompasses the idea of protecting ones rights as a human and not acting in unjust ways.
ReplyDeleteYour idea of "We act knowing that you, having our power, would do the same" is not a real explanation because thats pretty much saying I'm going to kill you because you could kill me. Well then we would all be dead. Just because someone else might do it too does not mean you arent breaking a moral code.
Let me put it this way. Those in power are no above those that aren't. We are still all humans and where we are born does not change our status as a member of society.