From a practiced Epicurean and an aspiring Stoic, I, like Siddhartha, would like to find the middle path. As children and adolescents, I think most of us are natural Epicureans. We are attracted to those things that give us pleasure and avoid those things that give us pain. This pattern works pretty well until we get closer to adulthood. We start realizing that if we limit ourselves to just activities that are fun in the moment, we start losing out on the possibilities for our lives. For example, if a kid is a naturally great singer, he/she might take choral arts and spend a lot of time performing. But if that same kid is not a good athlete, he/she might just give up on sports. By only taking on activities that are easy, we lose out on many experiences. Who is to say that there is more pleasure in being very successful at something that comes easy for you than succeeding at something that requires great effort.
I think the choice between Epicurean and Stoic values is one that everyone faces as they grow up. There just isn't any way to become a responsible adult without taking on some Stoic practices. For example, a parent has to be willing to do without sleep to care for a newborn baby, or work at a job they hate to pay the rent. These sacrifices give the adult pleasure because they feel good about taking care of their family. On the other hand, if a parent loses the ability to just have fun and play like a kid, they can become depressed and angry.
When I think of these things, it makes me wonder if both Epicureans and Stoics have good ideas. Maybe the best choice is a middleway that incorporates both philosophies.
We seem to have the same overall view. Like you, I agree that "the choice between Epicurean and Stoic values is one that everyone faces as they grow up." Throughout our lives, especially in our early years, our minds are changing. Our goals in life change, as does our pleasures. A single label cannot represent the vast amount of experiences we live, and how we encounter them.
ReplyDeleteI think it might be more accurate to say that we abandon the Hedonistic ideal of “pleasure now” for what appears to be the Epicurean ideal of “long term pleasure is better (because there’s less pain in the end)” as we get older. When students are told at B-CC to “think, learn, serve, and be responsible” they’re essentially being encouraged to consider the long term—sacrifice now, and pleasure is around the corner (in the form of a great college and career).
ReplyDeleteBut is this REALLY an Epicurean approach? There seem to be plenty of college grads and working adults who are depressed about the course their life has taken—which suggests that they miscalculated somewhere along the line.
The adult world doesn’t seem to be advocating a Stoic approach, either. We’re not really taught that pleasure isn’t a good goal like a Stoic, only that long term pleasure will only come with sacrifice.
So the real question is what philosophy are teenagers heading into adulthood actually adopting? Maybe something that should be called Careerism: the vague idea that college + career = happiness.
True Epicureanism only works if you take the time to figure out for yourself what long term happiness looks like. And the only way you’re going to figure this out is to get to know who you truly are. The good news is, you’re now in a course that allows you to think about exactly that.