However, I do think that the limitation of not hurting others is a valid point. The Athenians could have easily taken over Melos, and stuck with simply collecting taxes and dues. However, the Athenians continued to the seemingly unnecessary step of killing all the men and enslaving all the women and children on the island. Not only does this seem a pointless and unnecessary action, it seems rather counterproductive. The men who could have helped the island thrive, so the Athenians could make a profit have been killed, and it has given the children a reason to seek revenge on Athens when they grow older. If people restrained from hurting others, they could still harness their power for their political advantage, and use it in a way that does not harm weaker people too much.
Saturday, October 30, 2010
Blog Response 2
People should not have to place restraints on their power--as Thrasymachus said, power determines justice. The Athenians had the strength to defeat and subdue the Melians, so if they wanted to conquer the Melians, nothing should stop them. As far as the analogy of accepting a bully punching me in the stomach and taking my money, I suppose I would have to accept it. As a smaller and less powerful person, I cannot physically defend myself from such a bully. Yet, while the bully may be punching me now, there is nothing to say that in the future the tables wouldn't turn, and that I would not end up being the boss of that bully, and able to return every offense of the bully. There is a quote "Most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of being rich than face the reality of being poor", which I feel fits with this situation. The Melians might never be able to return the offenses of the Athenians, but there is the slight possibility that they could assume the dominance of the Athenians, and then they would want to be able to sack Athens in return. Until that point, however, the Melians should not complain, lest the offenses become worse.
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I completely agree. No concrete rules can stop a greater being from beating down an inferior being. They have every right to do so. What they may not have, is a humane reason to perform the act. That however, is beside the point.
ReplyDeleteWhere do ethics come to play in this argument? Ethics and morals may not give us "rights" but they still exist, and they still guide our behavior to a pretty great degree. It's easy to say that you would hypothetically be okay with someone punching you in the stomach, but if it were actually happening I'm pretty sure you would think it was unfair.
ReplyDeletei completely disagree with this statement. My reasoning for disagreeing, is that if people had no restraints on their power, there would be no such thing as a justice system and furthermore no such concept as right vs. wrong. If this were the case, who would have the right to say that stealing or committing other such crimes would be morally wrong?instead the questioning behind the reasoning of our actions would change from "what is morally right vs. wrong" to "what I feel is right".
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with your first paragraph. I do, however, think you saved yourself by noting that the Athenians' choice of actions were excessive and unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteYou can say that as a kid getting punched by a bully you would accept it but in reality, any kid getting punched by a bully would be upset. Just because someone isn't physically dominant doesn't mean they lack any worth. Power can be defined in so many different ways, I think its important to restrain ones "power" so that they can appreciate the abilities of others.
If I understand you correctly, you say even the powerful should avoid hurting others, if only because it could be to their advantage. The word "hurting" is an important one here. Am I hurting you if I never touch you but warn you to do what I say for the rest of your life or you'll be killed? See where I'm going with this? Even if the Athenians simply moved into Melos, they are obviously going to strip the people of rights. If they leave their rights in place, then how are they to control them? While it is not direct physical hurt, I don't think it's a stretch to say repression is painful.
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